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 Don Guhl Motors new E85 flash for your Gen 2 ZX14R.. 
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Watch this thread for Smokins Pictures, install and testing for this E85 flash...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxKokBIOCv4



Wed May 29, 2013 7:30 pm
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So when I get my exhaust will I even need a pc5? Or can he tune my Ecu for a Brock pipe running gas and e85?


Wed May 29, 2013 8:12 pm
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Sounds good, but .............. off the top of my head ............

He said stock except ECU flash and Brock exhaust - that means no PC.
Sounds like both tunes for L and H are in the ECU.
Sounds like no need for PC or Brock map.
Sounds like my WEGO is now pretty useless as no way to change the tune.
Sounds like the stock injectors will handle +40% fuel???

Sound about right??? :shock:

.


Wed May 29, 2013 9:05 pm
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slvrblt wrote:
So when I get my exhaust will I even need a pc5? Or can he tune my Ecu for a Brock pipe running gas and e85?
Looks that way ... BUT to be sure i would give Don a call ...


Wed May 29, 2013 9:38 pm
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LUCKY14R wrote:
Sounds good, but .............. off the top of my head ............

He said stock except ECU flash and Brock exhaust - that means no PC.
Sounds like both tunes for L and H are in the ECU.
Sounds like no need for PC or Brock map.
Sounds like my WEGO is now pretty useless as no way to change the tune.
Sounds like the stock injectors will handle +40% fuel???

Sound about right??? :shock:

.

I replied in the other post lucky ... :thumbs:


Wed May 29, 2013 9:39 pm
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Seeing that i like my P/C and Brocks map i would like to leave that in that as is .. I could still have the ECU reflashed in low power mode for e85 and NO ECU fuel map in full power and let the P/C do the work... The P/C holds two maps so you could still have Brocks pump gas map and use a map switch to switch back to a zero map for the e85.. Sounds like a bit more work but you still have your P/C to tune with .. You could even fine tune Guhls ECU map with the P/C if you needed a little tweaking ...


Wed May 29, 2013 9:50 pm
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I picked spare up a ECU from OSR , going to work with Don on His E85 flash and see what can be done on E85 Vs pump gas .. I have a call into Don but he was busy on the dyno so he will call me back and i'll get him to fill in some of the queston posted ..


Thu May 30, 2013 4:03 pm
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LUCKY14R wrote:
Sounds good, but .............. off the top of my head ............

He said stock except ECU flash and Brock exhaust - that means no PC.
Sounds like both tunes for L and H are in the ECU.
Sounds like no need for PC or Brock map.
Sounds like my WEGO is now pretty useless as no way to change the tune.
Sounds like the stock injectors will handle +40% fuel???

Sound about right??? :shock:

.

Lucky here is what i got from Don today talking on the phone with him .

He said stock except ECU flash and Brock exhaust - that means no PC. ( Yes )


Sounds like both tunes for L and H are in the ECU. ( yes )

Sounds like no need for PC or Brock map. ( Yes and NO ) You can run the P/C with a zero map and tune on top of the ECU Fuel Mapping if Needed )

Sounds like my WEGO is now pretty useless as no way to change the tune. ( NO , not if you keep your P/C )

Sounds like the stock injectors will handle +40% fuel??? ( Yes , Don said he added 7% more fuel on top of his E85 tune and did not max out the duty cycle )


Hope this helps lucky ...


Thu May 30, 2013 7:57 pm
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I'll try the e85 when I go to the track, might be next week if I go to the deer lease this weekend.

wee


Thu May 30, 2013 7:59 pm
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Wheelie wrote:
I'll try the e85 when I go to the track, might be next week if I go to the deer lease this weekend.

wee

How you going to do it ...With the P/C or Reflash ?


Thu May 30, 2013 8:18 pm
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SmokinZX14 wrote:
Lucky here is what i got from Don today talking on the phone with him .

He said stock except ECU flash and Brock exhaust - that means no PC. ( Yes )


Sounds like both tunes for L and H are in the ECU. ( yes )

Sounds like no need for PC or Brock map. ( Yes and NO ) You can run the P/C with a zero map and tune on top of the ECU Fuel Mapping if Needed )

Sounds like my WEGO is now pretty useless as no way to change the tune. ( NO , not if you keep your P/C )

Sounds like the stock injectors will handle +40% fuel??? ( Yes , Don said he added 7% more fuel on top of his E85 tune and did not max out the duty cycle )


Hope this helps lucky ...


Yes, very honest, straight, no-BS answers!
I LIKE that!!!


Thu May 30, 2013 8:40 pm
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SmokinZX14 wrote:
Wheelie wrote:
I'll try the e85 when I go to the track, might be next week if I go to the deer lease this weekend.

wee

How you going to do it ...With the P/C or Reflash ?
PC/Wego

wee


Thu May 30, 2013 8:41 pm
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Wheelie wrote:
SmokinZX14 wrote:
Wheelie wrote:
I'll try the e85 when I go to the track, might be next week if I go to the deer lease this weekend.

wee

How you going to do it ...With the P/C or Reflash ?
PC/Wego

wee
Ok start at 40% all they way across the map and work for there .. E85 is very forgiving on the tune .. Meaning 35% or 40% it will not run that much different unlike reg gas would .. You could tune from 12.9 to 13.4 and not see much difference in ETs .. If i remember right on Roys bike we started at 40% and stayed at 40% in the low end and trimmed it down to 36% in the high RPMs ..We gained 6 HP on his stock Gen 1 zx14 ..Same dyno same day ..

Don told me today about the bike in the video .. The owner said to Don you didn't get much HP on the dyno so i'm bringing back the P/C and have you remove the E85 tune .. Don said ride it some before you do that .. Well the guy went to the track and made some passes and said the bike was to hard to ride .. it would wheely so easy with the E85 he could not ride the bike like he did before ..He said it felt much much stronger than the dyno numbers lead him to believe ..He said the extra TQ was out of hand and would have to relearn how ride the bike .. He said the bike runs so much smoother also .. Roy ( wrong way) told me the same thing on his street bike and race bike ..He has been running e85 for years now with a single problem in both of his zx14s .Rich also runs E85 with Roys tune . This is what i have been hearing for a lot of guys that have been using it ..I have not yet tried it myself because we just got a gas station that sells it just a short time ago ..I have no reason not to believe what Roy, Rich and Don and the others have told me .. But like they say proof is in the pudding .. I'll trurly believe it when i try it ..


Thu May 30, 2013 9:13 pm
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If anyone has tried E85 please feel free to tell us all about it .. The more info the better .. :thumbs:


Thu May 30, 2013 9:34 pm
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I ran e85 in my '06 zx10 for years and was happy with the results. As for afr 12.5-12.8 on a gasoline afr gauge is what we always shot for on the dyno. As for the track it seemed to like 12.2-12.5 on my wideband. We put it back on the dyno it was rich and dyno #'s were down. Basically difference in a map tuned for the track and not just on what the dyno liked (ram air difference). When I switched all I did was crush my stock fuel pressure regulator to bump the fuel pressure from 45 to 60 psi, pour in e85 and tune it. It only picked up 4 peak hp but 12hp @ 9500 and became a mid range monster. E85 hp benefits seem to be the highest in the area that the engine makes peak torque. Basically ramp up and taper down from that point. I'm waiting on a few things before the 14 goes full e85 but it should be soon. I'd be glad to answer any questions anyone has but I'd also appreciate it if you did some searching for general e85 knowledge before asking me. I've done a lot of research and testing to figure out what works for me. There were hiccups along the way, I did burn up one stock pump over the 3 years I ran it and 1 fuel injector. E85's ethanol % fluctuates at the pump and so you need to test it to see what you're working with. Having a wideband I always adjusted for it. On the flip side a buddy running it kept a lot on hand and always mixed his to be a constant 85%.

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Fri May 31, 2013 12:24 am
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jlaudio11 wrote:
I ran e85 in my '06 zx10 for years and was happy with the results. As for afr 12.5-12.8 on a gasoline afr gauge is what we always shot for on the dyno. As for the track it seemed to like 12.2-12.5 on my wideband. We put it back on the dyno it was rich and dyno #'s were down. Basically difference in a map tuned for the track and not just on what the dyno liked (ram air difference). When I switched all I did was crush my stock fuel pressure regulator to bump the fuel pressure from 45 to 60 psi, pour in e85 and tune it. It only picked up 4 peak hp but 12hp @ 9500 and became a mid range monster. E85 hp benefits seem to be the highest in the area that the engine makes peak torque. Basically ramp up and taper down from that point. I'm waiting on a few things before the 14 goes full e85 but it should be soon. I'd be glad to answer any questions anyone has but I'd also appreciate it if you did some searching for general e85 knowledge before asking me. I've done a lot of research and testing to figure out what works for me. There were hiccups along the way, I did burn up one stock pump over the 3 years I ran it and 1 fuel injector. E85's ethanol % fluctuates at the pump and so you need to test it to see what you're working with. Having a wideband I always adjusted for it. On the flip side a buddy running it kept a lot on hand and always mixed his to be a constant 85%.
Great info .. It Mirrors what i have been hearing from others ... :thumbs:


Fri May 31, 2013 9:58 am
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My E85 flashed ECU should be here Tuesday along with my Wego 3 ... :thumbs: Pictures and stories to come ... :bigthumb:


Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:36 pm
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SmokinZX14 wrote:
My E85 flashed ECU should be here Tuesday along with my Wego 3 ... :thumbs: Pictures and stories to come ... :bigthumb:


:thumbs: :bigthumb: :clap:

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Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:35 am
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E85 goodies showed up today !!





[url][URL=http://s129.photobucket.com/user/smokinzx14/media/001-13.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]


Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:12 pm
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[url][URL=http://s129.photobucket.com/user/smokinzx14/media/002-6.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]


Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:16 pm
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[url][URL=http://s129.photobucket.com/user/smokinzx14/media/003-6.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]


Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:17 pm
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Zero Map in the P/C

[url][URL=http://s129.photobucket.com/user/smokinzx14/media/004-4.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]


Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:19 pm
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A quick swap of the ECU , Remove all pump gas , Added 3 gallons of E85 and zero out my Map in the P/C ..
The bike started right up and idled smooth .. Throttle was very very snappy !!

I just had to go for a short trip and see how it felt .. I didn't even reinstall the body work ... Wow Lower and mid range power is way up , in third gear roll on it would just blow the tire off .. The motor Revs faster and feels smoother .. In third at 2500 i banged on the throttle and when the motor hit about 5k all hell breaks lose .. :thumbs: Not bad because it's in the 90s with 89% humidity today but yet the motor feels very crisp !!

Remember i didn't tune it , i just did a quick plug and play .. Reason i did this is because this is what most guys would do ( Avg Zx14 owner ).. Drag racing and Data logging will be coming to see if this E85 tune can be tweeked a bit for more power .. Todays test was just to see what someone could see and feel with just installing a E85 Flash with a fuel tune already in the ECU ..

My ECU also has a pump gas tune in the high power mode , E85 tune is in my low power mode .. Making it easy to switch from E85 back to 89 pump gas ..

So far so good for the E85 testing .. Now to install the Wego Data logger and get some numbers .. Also i have not tested the E85 to see if it is a true E85 .. I'll test the fuel Thursday with a E85 Quickfuel tester ..I did notice the pump i got the E85 said Octane rating of 104 .. This is the only gas station that has E85 , the next one is almost 200 miles away ..

I don't think this station sells much E85 because as i started to fill my gas can a guy ran out and said " HEY that's not Gas , it's E85 , you sure you want that !! " So I told bill bob i knew what i was doing ... :D

The price was 3.57 a gallon about the same as 89 pump gas around here .. I guess being the only E85 dealer around he can over charge for it .. Anyway still cheaper than MR12 and i don't have to remove it after racing .. :thumbs:

More to come .............. :vroom:


Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:46 pm
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I'm very curious as to how cool the motor runs...

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Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:57 pm
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Shane661 wrote:
I'm very curious as to how cool the motor runs...
Glad you asked Shane .. The motor ran in the shop for 30 mins and then i went for a short ride ( 3 miles maybe ) Temp was 92 outside and the bikes fans never did come on .. The temp gauge never got over 187 deg ..

Also when i got back i put my hands on the TBs and they were cool to the touch .. :shock:


Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:37 pm
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SmokinZX14 wrote:
Shane661 wrote:
I'm very curious as to how cool the motor runs...
Glad you asked Shane .. The motor ran in the shop for 30 mins and then i went for a short ride ( 3 miles maybe ) Temp was 92 outside and the bikes fans never did come on .. The temp gauge never got over 187 deg ..

Also when i got back i put my hands on the TBs and they were cool to the touch .. :shock:


That sounds really good for the drag strip. I hate when I get up to stage and the fans are running, I know the power is down.

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Can not wait too see what results u get lee


Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:32 pm
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Ok .. I got my E85 tester today so i did a little testing ... Looks to be E83 and 1/2 .. Not e85 but pretty close ... I also was told by the speed shop i got the tester at that we have a new Gas Station Chain in town called Thrortons .. So i drove by one of their new locations and yes Sir they Carry E85 also and at a cheaper place than i got mine at ... :thumbs:

[url][URL=http://s129.photobucket.com/user/smokinzx14/media/001-14.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]


Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:42 pm
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When do you think you can track test it, Lee?

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Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:50 pm
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Shane661 wrote:
When do you think you can track test it, Lee?

if i get the wego all hooked up i'll shoot for next Weds night at are 1/8 mile track .. All goes well there i'll head down to are good 1/4 mile track and get some real numbers .. :thumbs:


Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:56 pm
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Side note but is that Sunshine drag way your racing at?

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Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:15 pm
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jlaudio11 wrote:
Side note but is that Sunshine drag way your racing at?
Yes sunshine or show time drag strip ... Or what we have called it for 33 years shoe shine drag strip .. :)


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SmokinZX14 wrote:
Ok .. I got my E85 tester today so i did a little testing ... Looks to be E83 and 1/2 .. Not e85 but pretty close ... I also was told by the speed shop i got the tester at that we have a new Gas Station Chain in town called Thrortons .. So i drove by one of their new locations and yes Sir they Carry E85 also and at a cheaper place than i got mine at ... :thumbs:

[url][URL=http://s129.photobucket.com/user/smokinzx14/media/001-14.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]



Not to be Nit Pickey but i remember from chemistry class that when you measure liquids you line up with the bottom of the "miniscus" in other words the center of the test tube. Liquids ride up the sides of any container but the true measurement is from the middle. In the photo it looks like top of Miniscus lined up with line.


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Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:18 pm
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Different angle .. That look better ? Either way it's just a picture .. All i was looking for was not to get something as low as E70 .. I think i got better than E70 ...Is the tester not 100% correct ? i'm sure it's not .. But i will have something to go by if i check other E85 from other gas stations ..


[url][URL=http://s129.photobucket.com/user/smokinzx14/media/002-7.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]


Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:12 pm
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I got the Wego 3 a/f meter all hooked up today ... Seems to work pretty good .. I did not mount the LED up where lucky has his placed . Wires were to darn short and wego said NOT to add extra wire .. I just put it under the seat next to my MPS kill box .Not sure i would even have time to look at it in 8 seconds anyway.. I hooked the TPS and RPM wire right to the ECU wiring ( thanks Lucky ) .. I hooked the RPM wire to the number one injector wire .. It has a nice clean signal .. No RPM bounch that some have reported using the coil wires ..

Ran some Data logs in the shop and all looks good .. I have it set to log an hour of Data .. Looks pretty simple to log and find the logs .. Everytime you restart the motor it starts a new log .. I can save to file the runs i want and delete the runs i don't want .. I can trim the stuff out like the burn outs or the stuff on the return road and just keep and view the runs down the track.. This Wego unit has a lot of things i can use for map building if needed ..

Right now all i'm worried about is getting to the track and see if it makes a clean run .. My butt dyno said it feels to have more power but the track will tell the story .. I have been off the bike since the Man Cup race so i will not be all that sharp on the first few runs .. Add to that its in the mid 90s here with super high humiditys .. Keep in mind this mapping was done on a dyno and i has not been track tested .. Don will use my Data logs and ET and MPH to refine the map if needed , much like Brock has done with his maps ..This is Dons first map on E85 on a ZX14R ..But he has mapped a ton 600s and 1000s motors with E85 so he has a good handle on Fuel ratios and what A/F numbers make the best power ..If the ZX14R likes something different we will find out shortly and make the adjustments..

I have to say i sure like the way the bike runs on E85 , i had it running in the shop today for hours and the fans never did come on .. :shock:


Going to try for testing at BMP Sat night ...More to come ... :vroom:


Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:04 am
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Can't wait to see what she does! :thumbs:

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Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:51 am
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Any problems in future with alcohol, if use daily...in zx14r :D ? Finland we have E5, E10 and E85, Kawi recommed E5.
Need any changes to fuelpump/lines etc.?


Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:19 am
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SmokinZX14 wrote:
.. I did not mount the LED up where lucky has his placed . Wires were to darn short and wego said NOT to add extra wire ..


Sorry. I didn't mention that part, hoping that the bung in the AH2 was closer to the front than on the CT Single. I helped with Wheelie's install and we just barely had enough cable to get to the bung on the CT Single. He cable-tied his display over the steering stem and that is just enough to turn lock-to-lock without binding.

Knowing that, when I ordered my WEGO, I got the oxygen sensor with the 96 inch harness (same price!), instead of the standard 42 inch and just rolled up the extra in the front fairing.

Maybe too late for you, but might help the next person ...................


Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:56 am
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Tsaki wrote:
Any problems in future with alcohol, if use daily...in zx14r :D ? Finland we have E5, E10 and E85, Kawi recommed E5.
Need any changes to fuelpump/lines etc.?
All I can tell is Roy ( wrongway ) has been running E85 in his street bike and race bike for years .. His street bike ( Gen 1 zx14 ) has a tons of miles on it running E85 ..Seems all you need to do is pour it in and remap ..That is all i have done ..

Here in the states all fuel is E10 and on it's going to be E15 very soon ..


Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:15 am
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LUCKY14R wrote:
SmokinZX14 wrote:
.. I did not mount the LED up where lucky has his placed . Wires were to darn short and wego said NOT to add extra wire ..


Sorry. I didn't mention that part, hoping that the bung in the AH2 was closer to the front than on the CT Single. I helped with Wheelie's install and we just barely had enough cable to get to the bung on the CT Single. He cable-tied his display over the steering stem and that is just enough to turn lock-to-lock without binding.

Knowing that, when I ordered my WEGO, I got the oxygen sensor with the 96 inch harness (same price!), instead of the standard 42 inch and just rolled up the extra in the front fairing.

Maybe too late for you, but might help the next person ...................

That is ok lucky ... I figure i will not have time to look at the LED anyway ..I have too many other things to worry about in that 8 seconds .. :shock:


Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:20 am
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At 160+ mph you need to keep your eyes focused ahead. You would want to see it all the time if you were tuning for street riding. Then you can see what its doing on the fly.

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Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:33 am
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SmokinZX14 wrote:
Tsaki wrote:
Any problems in future with alcohol, if use daily...in zx14r :D ? Finland we have E5, E10 and E85, Kawi recommed E5.
Need any changes to fuelpump/lines etc.?
All I can tell is Roy ( wrongway ) has been running E85 in his street bike and race bike for years .. His street bike ( Gen 1 zx14 ) has a tons of miles on it running E85 ..Seems all you need to do is pour it in and remap ..That is all i have done ..

Here in the states all fuel is E10 and on it's going to be E15 very soon ..


Thanks Smokin. Iam going also E85, tuned by Woolich soft. L mode E85 and F pump gas.
Results as soon as my tuning wizzard has dynotime.

ps. Now when i see all fuel/ignition/stp maps and safetymode maps...Kawi is SO limited in stock :shock:


Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:49 am
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Rained out at BMP Sat night ...So our 1/8 mile track had a Mid Night Madness race , so i headed over there at 11:30 .. Yes it was Mad .. 20 cars , all street tires ... I make 3 passes and went home .. I spun so bad on the first run i didn't even move off the starting line .. It got worse from there ... It was so slick on the track me feet would slip out from under me at the starting line . Sand , dirt , water and oil all over the track. The return road hooked better than the track ... Never again will i go to Sunshine Drag Strip .. 30 years of racing there are over for me .. :twisted:

So i got no Data logging on the E85 and i can't tell you anything on how it works ...A big waste of my time and Money .. :evil:


Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:31 am
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I did learn one thing last night .. I had a friend with me that has a zx14R set up like mine .. He was running pump gas , Me E85 .. We hot laped the first two runs ... My temp gauge 176 his 197 .. :shock: The E85 really keeps your motor cool ..


Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:35 am
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I have a message out to Don about running it in my Gen 4. MR12 isn't in my budget, but E85 is. Would love to try it. Justin has been a lot of help as well. I appreciate it!

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Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:00 pm
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Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:56 pm
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Sounds good, I wounder if the same goes for the gen1 could he flash a ecu to work for e85


Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:31 pm
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Location: Devon, UK
Lee, you mentioned that it's not neccessary to pump E85 out like you have to with MR12.

I was reading the Anglo American Oil website about their E85-R and they mention the fuel’s potential to be more aggressive with rubber materials. What's the accepted opinion on this?

It's hard to find in the UK but I was contemplating the Sunoco product which I could buy in 25 litre drums, the same way we buy our race fuels.

http://www.aaoil.co.uk/products/racing-fuels/chemicals/sunoco-e85-racing/


Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:00 am
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BobC wrote:
Lee, you mentioned that it's not neccessary to pump E85 out like you have to with MR12.

I was reading the Anglo American Oil website about their E85-R and they mention the fuel’s potential to be more aggressive with rubber materials. What's the accepted opinion on this?

It's hard to find in the UK but I was contemplating the Sunoco product which I could buy in 25 litre drums, the same way we buy our race fuels.

http://www.aaoil.co.uk/products/racing-fuels/chemicals/sunoco-e85-racing/

I can't say about cars built in England but cars built here and sold here in the last few years have changed lines , O rings and other fuel system parts to withstand E10 and E15 fuels ..All our fuels here have at least 10% added and our leaders just made it so we can use up to 15% corn juice .. Bob I can't really answer your question, I just don't have the facts to back up anything or any claims .. Here is what I do know , Roy has been using it in his zx14 street bike for years with zero problems , he also uses it in his 1532cc ZX14 LSR bike with zero problems and set a few LSR records using it .. I have talked with a few other Kawi owners that have been using E85 with zero problems also ..Bob you will have to do your home work and judge for yourself if it's safe for your bike ..
Lee...


Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:08 am
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Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:03 am
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Lee,

I have been running E85 for a while now, in the 08 zx10 I bought (your old one), my 2011 and both 2012zx14Rs. It's the best bang for the buck as to performance vs pump fuel. I saw about 4 to 5 hp depending on the day and tune... it should equate to about 2 mph difference.. maybe more depending on track conditions. Where is this Thorton's... On your side of town? I will be back in a few years and hopefully they will still be around. The closest I have found is in Orlando.

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Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:48 pm
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