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 H2 + zx14r comparison numbers by the master himself 
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Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:10 am
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posted from Rickey Gadson's facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/RickeyGadsonFa ... =1&theater

Rickey Gadson quote "Here are the results from H2 vs ZX14R stock wheelbase comparison runs. Check out the #monster back half numbers! 3.03 H2 back half split vs 3.19 ZX14 back half split"

Both at stock wheelbase
......... RG H2..... 2015 zx14r
60..... 1.632..... 1.568
330... 4.197..... 3.990
1/8.... 6.134..... 5.970
mph... 129.52... 124.46
1000.. 7.771..... 7.691
1/4.... 9.166..... 9.168
mph... 160.10... 148.41

Now, I admit that RG assessment of how hard the H2 pulls in the back half is VERY impessive.
BUT, I still stand by the opinion that a stock H2 is overpriced for how it performs (as delivered).
It should be this quick out of the box.

And the reason I say that is because I have to assume that those H2 numbers are HIS H2. The hybrid. NOT a regular H2.
Again - VERY impressive, I agree. But that's not what you get direct from Kawasaki.

I'm sorry if I sound like a hater. I'm not. I would dearly love to own one. But like everyone else, I would have to have it tuned and flashed w at least a muffler. and for 25k+tax, I shouldn't have to.


Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:12 pm
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Valid points all.

All I can say after having mine now for these months...and I do have it piped,and flashed(rev limit raised)...from takeoffs and such...it's more of a handful than my piped and flashed 14R.A LOT more.And I don't drag race.Mine is sitting at 500 lbs with full fuel tank.


"BUT, I still stand by the opinion that a stock H2 is overpriced for how it performs (as delivered)"...aren't all these latest bikes overpriced?.25K is a lot of money...The H2R is the closest thing to unrestricted.They didn't expect 'avg joe' to get one.I can see the carnage on the streets if the H2 was delivered like an H2R.It's possible the 25K price tag was to keep 20 yr olds off this bike.Modding these really isn't that spendy.For your 'basic' mods...you can reach 250HP fairly easily.

"and for 25k+tax, I shouldn't have to"...maybe.Maybe not.Possibly if a guy is thinking.."25K?"..he shouldn't get this bike...????IDK.I never questioned the 'is it worth it' direction.I'm very happy with mine.It's all I ride anymore.

I think it'll have a decent resale value if I ever chose to do that...but I'm not planning on it.


"H2 numbers are HIS H2. The hybrid. NOT a regular H2"...just what was his 'hybrid' then?. An H2R with a headlamp?And winglets?I don't recall him EVER saying it had an H2R motor in there.Even if Kawasaki fitted an H2R pipe to it..that doesn't make it an H2R motor..They painted it green also...And added wings to the H2 front fairing.(and the sides).That doesn't make it an H2R.Just sayin.


He CLEARLY states in his first video..."MY H2"...not..."MY H2R".https://youtu.be/SBP37Sk1mgU


Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:01 pm
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Of course he says my H2. H2 = streetable bike w lights etc. H2r is not. He states in the links below that its an H2 hybrid several times. Its documented somewhere what HIS bike actually is.

EDIT - from Guhl's tuning page when he was changing the "hybrid" or H2-RG. "but first, we must understand the bike that we had for testing. It is neither an H2 nor H2R. It is an H2 bike with the power plant and exhaust from the H2R (as far as anyone can tell :-) ). "
http://www.ninjah2.org/forum/tuning/512 ... sults.html

My understanding is its an H2 motor with H2r cams, head gasket, pipe, and clutch?. But that might have been only here say. I cant remember. lol. I forget what changes there were on the ecu side regarding rpm limit. one of the vids don't guhl posted when he was tweaking it stated that info.

here's where he discusses the 1 off bike. and I quote "For that test, I brought along my 2015 ZX-14R, set up the same exact way, with stock wheelbase and lowered, that’s it. Everything else was factory. Did the same thing to the H2. The ZX-14R ran a 9.16 at 149 mph. The H2, with H2R pipes and ECU tuning very similar to the H2R’s, went 9.16 at 160. That’s 11 mph better!"

http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/12/11/on ... otorcycle/

and with added mods which equaled = 67" stretch, bst wheels, and rear shock. it went 8.21 and trapped 166.

vid with mods. https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UU6L ... BP37Sk1mgU

another thing to mention is that his Hybrid bike is quite a bit lighter than an H2. Quoted from dragbike.com "Rickey’s H2 Hybrid weighs 460lbs on the scales after this bolt-on mods are made. The curb weight of a new H2 is 530."


Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:16 pm
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What all this has led up to is.... Has anyone actually ran a real, stock, production H2 at the dragstrip?

Lowered only is ok, in my mind. Just to keep consistency with what was posted above. and I realize it'll take one heck of a rider to get any kind of good numbers. and I also admit comparing numbers at different tracks and under different weather conditions wont tell us the whole story.

I'm not sure Ive ever seen any test results from someone doing this.

and also, I "get" that the H2 isn't exactly meant for 1/4 mile work. but its the easiest comparison I can make between the two. standing mile results haven't really shown that the H2 is all that dominant YET. Its only gone a little over 200 with gearing change only, right? Or are the guys running them in the mile and mile and a half "completely flashed"? IE at the 250rwhp level. vs 195ish "stock".

Here's the only documented numbers I can come up with in the 1/4. from a UK mag.
http://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/re ... ezN2eRRESk

H2 9.91 at 154.91. but this is with a data logger, I believe. which doesn't give an average like an actual dragstrip does.
Because their trap speed of a bmw s100rr is within 3mph (152.07) and a Panigale s trapped 151.56.

Wish a zx14r was there to compare. lol.


Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:29 pm
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Good report. Price has always been the factor that turns down most of us from owning an H2 or H2R( besides maintenance with the H2R)....heck of a bike still. Both of them. Kawasaki rocks. If money was no option Id have one as well along with the garage space to own any one of them.

:thumbs:


Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:06 am
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Dragstrip numbers on stock bikes have very little to do with real-world performance. The chassis and clutch setup have a bigger impact than the outright hp, when dealing with these two machines.

I've got a 212 mph 14R, and a new H2. The H2 will end up stomping the 14R, with similar mods. That is the report from the riders perch. :bigthumb:

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Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:13 am
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from Shane..."The H2 will end up stomping the 14R, with similar mods"...LOL...that's best ride report I've read in a while;)Couldn't have said it better...(still love my 14R...she's getting pretty pissed though,'new kid in town' and all that :lol:

There's just 'something' about my H2 that beckons me everytime I want to ride.It's crazy.It's not even a 'choice' anymore.Am I okay? :dunno:


Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:07 pm
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So basically swb h2 vs swb BMW h2 is in trouble.


Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:11 pm
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KawiDrew wrote:
So basically swb h2 vs swb BMW h2 is in trouble.


Where did you gather that? These bikes are incredibly hard to ride at the dragstrip, swb....Schnitz crashed a swb BMW...and he is one of the best.

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Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:56 pm
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More power more tq less traction harder to manage a clean pass.


Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:25 pm
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I wish Rickey would have shown times of "HIS" very special H2 against "HIS" own very special Boosted 14R. Boost against Boost. 30 Grand Against 30 Grand. My price #'s are off in this quick discussion but the slaughter down the track of the equally priced Modded H2 would not be.

just for example look at what our 14Rs can do power wise on pump fuel with only 14lbs of Boost. Now compare those torque numbers to a fully modded H2 or H2R. The 14 is a clear winner for the money spent.

My buddy keeps hitting me with the warranty card during this discussion. ok,,, he wins that one. If, and only if, he never flashes that ECU. When he does, and he will, all is equal again.

Please don't misunderstand, I want one of these bikes badly,,,, just because. But,,,, I'm fully aware my 14R will Eat it, all day, every day, for less money.

For those of you who don't have the wallet for the H2, Boosting your current ride will end any discussion of the H2 ever being able to creep by. Nothing like a Boosted 14. Nothing !

Image


Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:22 pm
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300 hp@8000 rpm....... :shock: :bow: More like 7600 actually.... :mrgreen:

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Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:19 pm
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Thanks for the reply Romans. Summed up what I was getting at quite nicely.

My cheapness wont let me buy an H2 (if I even could), because I know I'm just a turbo away from having an H2 for lunch. For less money.

And still, when my bike is paid off next year; I may go looking for one. Or most likely I will wait until the next gen 14r.

And Grn14, if I was in your shoes I'd be on the H2 everytime as well. That bike IS special. Just the paint, single swingarm, and trellis frame makes it cool. 19-20K cool? I don't know, maybe... what I mean is that if it was just a new replacement zx10 without the blower; would it be just as cool as the r1m? possibly. so getting the blower for another 5k might be a deal. Ugh, I'm waffeling now. lol. BECAUSE I know just how easily it makes the ~250rwhp number, that's what rubs me a little bit.

I mean, sometimes I think Kawasaki is screwing with us. as in... yes, we made this badass bike; but you cant handle the potential, so we'll neuter the dam thing and take away 30+% of its rwhp (195+30% = 253). OR did they really build this and go, we cant let the regular consumer have the full potential, BUT wink-wink nudge-nudge; we'll let them mod it and make the power it can. and at least as soon as its modded, the liability is off our shoulders?

I don't ever expect to run across one on the street. Heck, I'm not even sure Ill see one in person, unless the one guy (that I know of) that has one around here decides to take it to bike night again.

As for money or perceived value. YES... All the "UP-spec" models are getting quite expensive. R1M, Panigale S, HP4 (discontinued) are over 20k. Some even quite close to the H2 in price.

I guess that's what makes me feel good about the 14r. At basically HALF Price of an H2 (or any of those other bikes), or even compared with a Diavel or Vmax at close to or over 20K; the 14r wins easily. Maybe its the income bracket I'm in, or just the thrill of getting the most of what was available and beating up on higher end vehicles with my "budget" racers; I'm always going to look for the value priced option. This make sense?

For example, I have a heads cam/fox mustang that until the newest level of cars (Camaro, mustang, etc) came out; it was easily quicker than most of them. And would even give a lightly modded c5 or stock c6 a run. And my '00 Firebird formula is twin turboed, and I have crushed older bikes on the freeway; and beat up on old musclecars with big motors and slicks... or even put a hurtin on a z06 and even a newer zr1 corvette. The surprise factor when they get walked by a lowly f-body is quite fun.

And I realize that the 14 isn't quite the same is that (it is the dominant hyperbike at the moment), but there is always something in my mind that would say - "its (H2) supposed to win, its supercharged". The first and currently only factory forced inducted bike out there. Plus, no one can say well.. it handles better with its uprated suspension than a 14. Because I'm sure a zx10r would put a hurtin on it at just about any track out there. Unless its got VERY long straights.

The coolness of the H2 is where its at. Enjoy it, its a special bike regardless of price.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:13 am
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Way to much thought into this. First time I road my h2 wanted to throw my 14r out with bulk trash love the bike a turbo 14 would not replace it for me.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:49 am
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She's pretty damn nice in the curves.That's one thing..just one mind you,that keeps me wanting to ride her.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:52 am
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Why are you fools with 14r`s in such denial. I did the fucking test for all to know.The fairest test possible. Roll on from 5 grand 2,3,4,5 to redline each gear.The stock H2 pulls 2 bikes on the modded 14r with full ct,pc5 and Guhl flash..Did it 5 times same results. Those of you that didn`t have the money to buy one you fucked up.But you still have a fantastic bike so no big deal. But you will never know how superior the h2 is over any production bike out there today.It truly is Built beyond belief .It`s not from this world....25 grand was a bargain.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:45 am
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Romans wrote:
I wish Rickey would have shown times of "HIS" very special H2 against "HIS" own very special Boosted 14R. Boost against Boost. 30 Grand Against 30 Grand. My price #'s are off in this quick discussion but the slaughter down the track of the equally priced Modded H2 would not be.

just for example look at what our 14Rs can do power wise on pump fuel with only 14lbs of Boost. Now compare those torque numbers to a fully modded H2 or H2R. The 14 is a clear winner for the money spent.

My buddy keeps hitting me with the warranty card during this discussion. ok,,, he wins that one. If, and only if, he never flashes that ECU. When he does, and he will, all is equal again.

Please don't misunderstand, I want one of these bikes badly,,,, just because. But,,,, I'm fully aware my 14R will Eat it, all day, every day, for less money.

For those of you who don't have the wallet for the H2, Boosting your current ride will end any discussion of the H2 ever being able to creep by. Nothing like a Boosted 14. Nothing !

Image


The H2 has a better overall performance package, is really all you can say. That is, for a machine you actually ride on the street for distances. A 400 hp turbo bike is not something that handles, power is not linear, and you can only make that hp on race gas, if you don't have an intercooler. And, of course, a heavy pig. It's all apples and oranges. They are both great in their own way. The H2 is simply the meanest street Kaw ever produced...

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Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:24 pm
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What's taking you guys so long to post up swb numbers? Are we all waiting for the same thing full exhaust?


Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:51 pm
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"The H2 has a better overall performance package, is really all you can say. That is, for a machine you actually ride on the street for distances. A 400 hp turbo bike is not something that handles, power is not linear, and you can only make that hp on race gas, if you don't have an intercooler. And, of course, a heavy pig. It's all apples and oranges. They are both great in their own way. The H2 is simply the meanest street Kaw ever produced..."


Well...that gave me some clarity on a boosted 14.Thanks Shane.And the others(posters) as well.I've no experience with ANY boosted bike.My H2 is the first one.If I compared it to my flashed and piped 14R...I'd HAVE to say...it's a no contest.That doesn't take away from my 14 at all however.Two different machines...not supposed to be the same.I say this though...my 'modded' H2 is every bit as comfortable as my 14R.It rides a bit different,being what it is...but comfort wise...it's VERY sweet.

I've got just under 10K on mine right now....got her in March 0 miles...was only able to put 650 by May on her.Since i did a few 'minor' comfort mods...I've put the rest on there with all day rides.So that's saying something as to the rideabilty of this bike.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:41 pm
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Boosted bikes are a ton of fun, and very fast. Racheal has been 228 on her low-boost turbo Busa (but now a 400+ hp machine). But that bike rides like a tank compared to the H2, and only makes low 200's (hp) on pump gas.

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Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:57 pm
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KawiDrew wrote:
What's taking you guys so long to post up swb numbers? Are we all waiting for the same thing full exhaust?

To be honest I really don`t care what it runs. I`m gonna let other tear theirs up trying.When the rear tire is shot I may strap the front down and give it a few blast at Gateway. This bike is truly a work of art and i don`t want to fuck it up. When you take the H2 out and see the response it gets you get really protective of it immediately. I `m going out to the garage now to strip all the body work to start the installs of the alarm-pager system and the k-40 front and rear radar/laser jammer system.Will take at least 25 hours.All custom work.Every inch of it.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:24 pm
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Lol I didn't buy it to look at it all my things stay in good condition. But at the same time I'm going to run it. If not I would have just kept the 25k an stared at it.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:50 pm
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Guess some people will live it an some will talk about it take that 25 and invest instead its only a motorcycle.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:56 pm
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KawiDrew wrote:
Lol I didn't buy it to look at it all my things stay in good condition. But at the same time I'm going to run it. If not I would have just kept the 25k an stared at it.


When did you pick up your H2, and what have been your racing results?

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Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:57 pm
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I picked mine up early June. I have not ran it I am waiting for a full exhaust system. At that point I will be taking the bike to Guhl motors which is local to me after tunning I will strap lower and change the rear sprocket down 2 teeth to start and hit the 1/4. I have ran low low 9s swb on a 14r at over 200 lbs. Looking for suggestions though I know this bike will be a challenge.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:10 pm
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KawiDrew wrote:
I picked mine up early June. I have not ran it I am waiting for a full exhaust system. At that point I will be taking the bike to Guhl motors which is local to me after tunning I will strap lower and change the rear sprocket down 2 teeth to start and hit the 1/4. I have ran low low 9s swb on a 14r at over 200 lbs. Looking for suggestions though I know this bike will be a challenge.

OK man where do you unlock the seat.How do you start the engine.We need pic`s of your bike man.lmao.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:06 pm
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Ok let me drop down to your level.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:16 pm
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Is this ok


Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:20 pm
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What about this one?


Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:26 pm
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:lol:

wee


Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:30 pm
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Seat lock is on the left side under the steering stem.Hope this helps.

"I picked mine up early June. I have not ran it I am waiting for a full exhaust system"...I thought you said you wanted to ride?.I'm astounded...HOW the heck you get this bike..and put off riding it...at least ONCE! :o


Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:37 pm
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Here she is wild in nature just begging to go down the strip an get grime an rubber all over her.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:41 pm
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Unless I totally misunderstood you post there.After you ride this thing...you may not even WANT to add goodies to it...it's that good.Go ride it fer God's sake.signed...'stunned in Montana'

"get grime an rubber all over her"..be careful what you wish for...this paint's fairly fragileLOL.You mess up cleaning it right...it can't be 'repaired'... :wreck:


Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:44 pm
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My bike has 1200 miles I have not ran it down the strip. Like stated i am waiting to take it to Guhl which is local to me.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:44 pm
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I'm familiar with the nano I'm constantly putting coats on it


Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:48 pm
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Swooo...had me worried there for a minute.Thought maybe you were goin for the Guiness Record or something..."I bought an H2...and I've never ridden it once"....


Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:49 pm
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Never said I did not ride it said it has not been down the track yet. Nano 4 coats cross hatch patern blah blah Dr beasly.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:53 pm
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If I did not care about the bike at all I would have already cut the converter off but I'm keeping all the original parts with this bike including the crate. Just patiently waiting for a pipe.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:58 pm
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"I'm constantly putting coats on it"...easy tiger...4 is the recommended dose.I wouldn't go past that if it were mine.I want to say...here...I applied 3 coats in one evening.As per instructions.

Starting from about a month and a half ago...I began to 'notice' what looked like water 'rings' under the clearcoat.Not mineral rings...but something that was VERY VERY faint...in some spots on the tank.Like water drops 'expanding',,,if you know what I mean.Solid...under the surface(like it was part of the paint process...not something 'sticking' to it from something else.I never saw anything like those when I first applied the Nano stuff.The surface is completely smooth and sealed...and I NEVER allow water to just sit there.I dry the bike immediately after rinsing down.So IDK what it is.You can't see it unless the reflection is just at the right angle....even then,almost no one would notice it.But I did.Is it the 'nano' seal discoloring...God I hope not...but who knows?It hasn't gotten worse.And it's not 'all over' the sealed parts.

Just thought I'd mention that.Since I can't identify where or WHAT it actually is...or if it was there from day one at the factory....I only buff out the light marks(swirls and such) with the microfiber and Meguiar's 2.0 swirl remover.I haven't tried to see if the marks will actually come out with some light work on em...think I will though.Don't get me wrong...they really aren't visible unless i look right at em and get the light just right.And they aren't all over the tank and bike.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:03 pm
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:D


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Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:03 pm
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"including the crate"...I think that's pretty awesome myself. :bigthumb:


Nice pic BTW;)


Since you showed me yours...here's mine...Imageand just one more...Image


Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:05 pm
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I have a few small scratches on mine from before I received the nano. The paint is a nightmare I'm super picky about paint I have sold vehicles because of light swirling just to buy the same vehicle again. I know you pain all we can do is try to prevent them. I use a hand held sprayer each time I clean mine to begin.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:07 pm
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Can see I'm just going to end up cutting this converter :lol:


Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:14 pm
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:D I think you'd do well to just wait on a system...as you said...keep the factory exhaust in one piece.They're terribly expensive to buy new again.If you ever do resale...you'll be glad you kept the stock system to put back on there.I was too impatient...cut that cat out..still have the muffler in brand new shape though.I'd have to re weld(and cut)the midpipe out to get mine back factory again.I still have the cat as well.


Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:11 pm
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http://www.cycleworld.com/videos/featured_videos/bmw_s1000rr_-_turn_and_burn_ii/?attachment_id=815#ooid=xvN2g3dzoht9etfIxz8kU0l5F23flOYN

Full article. http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/08/24/superbikes-vs-supercars-ultimate-performance-comparison-test-results-specifications-photos/

almost 10K less S1000rr beats the H2 from 0-180 by .04. YES, it had an optional factory exhaust and race ecu programming. But the H2 was by no means dominant as most H2 owners here keep saying. at least in STOCK trim.

Wonder how the 14r would have fared. same day, etc.

I know I'm beating a dead horse. sorry guys. but face it... stock, its not that impressive.

Now, if someone wants to let me take a spin on theirs; I may change my mind. lol.


Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:50 am
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I can honestly say the h2 is the most hated on thing I've owned. I love it can't wait to embarrass people. Thank you kawi for not releasing 300 hp to the public but making it so simple to unrestrict the bike to give serious ass whippings for years to come. And thank you youtube for allowing people to make videos racing them that have no idea what there doing along with all the bs magazine articles I appreciate all of it. Its almost even more pathetic to here the exuses after the ass whippings have been given just rember people if you read it on the internet it must be true :lol:


Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:46 am
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Location: Devon, UK
Last Monday I was at a meeting at the Kawasaki UK HQ and one thing which was briefly mentioned, when we were talking about the H2 being restricted on power, was an agreement between companies not to market a road-legal bike with more than 200BHP. Much like the 300kph/186mph agreement. It explains quite a lot about why the H2 performs as it does. It also explains why they seem happy to let people like Rickey Gadson have a hybrid H2/H2R to set some speeds and times that would otherwise put them in breech of the agreement.


Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:01 am
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Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:19 pm
Posts: 147
I'm happy with people thinking my bike is slow I enjoy it. I also like my yearly 300 dollar insurance for the bike.


Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:36 am
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Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:10 am
Posts: 254
Location: Ann Arbor
Thanks for that bit of info Bob.

It didn't occur to me that they would really adhere to the wink-wink nudge-nudge 200 hp limit on this bike. Its been obvious to me in the past that kawi was doing this. take for example the gen 1 14 and the 14r.

I recall looking up the ratings in the service manuals and early on I was surprised that the 14r was only rated at what? 200 or 210 w ram air? and the gen 1 14 and 10r is 197? Yeah, like we believe the 1441 cc motor only gained 3 hp.

So yeah, that makes sense. Keep the insurance people and lawyers happy with our new 200hp flagship, that ummm btw can make 250+ rwhp.

Its just sad that they have to go about it that way. And I'm sure there will be some buyers of the H2 that will leave it completely stock, and then be disappointed that say, a s1000rr will walk (rider dependant). and there will be some who don't do the online thing and never read up on what these bikes can do (with the right mods).

anyway, enjoy the ride. Its def sweet.... stock hp too low or not.


Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:46 am
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Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:19 pm
Posts: 147
An s1000 is not walking this bike in stock form don't forget about the tq curve. Is it possible maybe but walk no. Where is the comparison of stock vs stock.


Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:07 am
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